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	<title>Comments on: Preserving and Displaying the “Bat-Wing Ship”</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.nasm.si.edu/2011/06/24/preserving-and-displaying-the-%E2%80%9Cbat-wing-ship%E2%80%9D/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/</link>
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		<title>By: Will Mac</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-99331</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Apr 2013 22:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-99331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Before we can second guess the crash cause or critique the Horten brothers abilities as engineers it should be noted that the first jet powered proto was already built awaiting its jet engines to be delivered- when said engines finally arrived, they were not the latest 60 cm diameter BMW engines promised but 80cm Juno engines..! There was no time to redesign the Ho IX to substantially increase the wingspan, rendering the airplane unable to achieve the speeds adamantly required by Göering. The Horten brothers therefore resorted to &quot;make do&quot; ingenuity to ready it for test flight before the end of 1944.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before we can second guess the crash cause or critique the Horten brothers abilities as engineers it should be noted that the first jet powered proto was already built awaiting its jet engines to be delivered- when said engines finally arrived, they were not the latest 60 cm diameter BMW engines promised but 80cm Juno engines..! There was no time to redesign the Ho IX to substantially increase the wingspan, rendering the airplane unable to achieve the speeds adamantly required by Göering. The Horten brothers therefore resorted to &#8220;make do&#8221; ingenuity to ready it for test flight before the end of 1944.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Lee</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-99274</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-99274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reimar Horten and his team completed only two prototypes of the Horten H IX, the H IX V1 glider and the H IX V2 which crashed with test pilot Ziller at the controls. The NASM H IX V3 is the third prototype begun by the Horten team but handed over to the Gotha firm to be finished and subjected to additional tests in preparation for mass production, according to plans issued late in the war by the German Air Ministry.

Ziller&#039;s crash in the H IX V2 is mysterious for the reasons you cited, Will. The engine controls may have jammed, or something may have incapacitated Ziller to prevent him from simply shutting down the furnctional engine and gliding to a crash landing, no one knows for sure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reimar Horten and his team completed only two prototypes of the Horten H IX, the H IX V1 glider and the H IX V2 which crashed with test pilot Ziller at the controls. The NASM H IX V3 is the third prototype begun by the Horten team but handed over to the Gotha firm to be finished and subjected to additional tests in preparation for mass production, according to plans issued late in the war by the German Air Ministry.</p>
<p>Ziller&#8217;s crash in the H IX V2 is mysterious for the reasons you cited, Will. The engine controls may have jammed, or something may have incapacitated Ziller to prevent him from simply shutting down the furnctional engine and gliding to a crash landing, no one knows for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-99272</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-99272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, since the first prototype was a glider, I would expect that if yaw were the only problem that crashed this aircraft, the pilot could have killed the other engine and dead-sticked his way back to a landing. I doubt he wasn&#039;t good enough to think of that. 

This was a prototype. There&#039;s a very good chance that more went wrong than a flamed-out engine. An engine on fire right next to the cockpit on a wooden aircraft might affect the mounts on controls within the wing, and there&#039;s the issue of air quality in the cockpit. For all we know, the pilot could have asphyxiated or ignited before the aircraft hit the ground.

I&#039;m assuming that this aircraft was another prototype, and not the crashed, repaired one. The article is a little confusing on this point, since it said there were two prototypes built, only one surviving prototype... but it also said that the first prototype was built as a glider. So, I&#039;m not sure how many were actually built.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, since the first prototype was a glider, I would expect that if yaw were the only problem that crashed this aircraft, the pilot could have killed the other engine and dead-sticked his way back to a landing. I doubt he wasn&#8217;t good enough to think of that. </p>
<p>This was a prototype. There&#8217;s a very good chance that more went wrong than a flamed-out engine. An engine on fire right next to the cockpit on a wooden aircraft might affect the mounts on controls within the wing, and there&#8217;s the issue of air quality in the cockpit. For all we know, the pilot could have asphyxiated or ignited before the aircraft hit the ground.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m assuming that this aircraft was another prototype, and not the crashed, repaired one. The article is a little confusing on this point, since it said there were two prototypes built, only one surviving prototype&#8230; but it also said that the first prototype was built as a glider. So, I&#8217;m not sure how many were actually built.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-99271</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-99271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad to see this very interesting prototype on its way to display. It is the stuff of dreams, though I get annoyed at the hype over how it could have changed the war. 

Note: You cannot mass produce a wooden aircraft that can fly 600mph. That requires a lot of hand craftsmanship to fit the pieces together, slowly and carefully. Someone noted all the sanding and filling needed to fit these wings, which were not built for this specific aircraft. Hello. With wooden construction you&#039;ll have to do that for EVERY wing, even it if IS specifically constructed for this aircraft.

Also, note that by the time this was under development, Germany didn&#039;t have enough fuel to fly them en masse, even if they could have mass produced them. So much for flying it across the ocean to the US.

All this aside, this was a very fascinating aircraft. That even one of them ever flew is worth both historical attention and scientific study for what it can offer modern aircraft engineering.

It obviously had problems. It crashed, killing a very skilled pilot. Also, placing jet exhaust that close to a plywood skin might not be the wisest engineering choice. The reference above is to the failed &quot;burning&quot; engine. Look how close the cockpit is to the engines. If one of them was on fire, that pilot was likely experiencing more stress than I can imagine, with more issues on his mind than yaw.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to see this very interesting prototype on its way to display. It is the stuff of dreams, though I get annoyed at the hype over how it could have changed the war. </p>
<p>Note: You cannot mass produce a wooden aircraft that can fly 600mph. That requires a lot of hand craftsmanship to fit the pieces together, slowly and carefully. Someone noted all the sanding and filling needed to fit these wings, which were not built for this specific aircraft. Hello. With wooden construction you&#8217;ll have to do that for EVERY wing, even it if IS specifically constructed for this aircraft.</p>
<p>Also, note that by the time this was under development, Germany didn&#8217;t have enough fuel to fly them en masse, even if they could have mass produced them. So much for flying it across the ocean to the US.</p>
<p>All this aside, this was a very fascinating aircraft. That even one of them ever flew is worth both historical attention and scientific study for what it can offer modern aircraft engineering.</p>
<p>It obviously had problems. It crashed, killing a very skilled pilot. Also, placing jet exhaust that close to a plywood skin might not be the wisest engineering choice. The reference above is to the failed &#8220;burning&#8221; engine. Look how close the cockpit is to the engines. If one of them was on fire, that pilot was likely experiencing more stress than I can imagine, with more issues on his mind than yaw.</p>
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		<title>By: John Wait</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-49705</link>
		<dc:creator>John Wait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-49705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been dying to see this restored for 20 years now, ever since I stumbled across pictures of it disassembled in a warehouse. A jet powered nazi flying wing from the 1940s?! It&#039;s the only example of this design left on the entire planet, and what a design; sleek, sexy and modern looking even today, 70 years later. It&#039;s a treasure that should really be on display at the Air and Space Museum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been dying to see this restored for 20 years now, ever since I stumbled across pictures of it disassembled in a warehouse. A jet powered nazi flying wing from the 1940s?! It&#8217;s the only example of this design left on the entire planet, and what a design; sleek, sexy and modern looking even today, 70 years later. It&#8217;s a treasure that should really be on display at the Air and Space Museum.</p>
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		<title>By: Flavio Viana</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-45979</link>
		<dc:creator>Flavio Viana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-45979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s very exciting to see this incredible aircraft getting the attention it deserves. Having personally sent out some emails in the past years inquiring about it I&#039;m thrilled to see that work is getting done on it.

Take good care of her. She&#039;s the last one of it&#039;s kind.

Cheers]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very exciting to see this incredible aircraft getting the attention it deserves. Having personally sent out some emails in the past years inquiring about it I&#8217;m thrilled to see that work is getting done on it.</p>
<p>Take good care of her. She&#8217;s the last one of it&#8217;s kind.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Andre' Nomad</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-34990</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre' Nomad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-34990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So that&#039;s where Spielberg and Lucas got the Idea from for there Indiana Jones first movie.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So that&#8217;s where Spielberg and Lucas got the Idea from for there Indiana Jones first movie.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Randolph</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-32874</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Randolph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 03:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-32874</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Preservation, restoration or replication? I&#039;d guess that a restoration would be 90% replacement anyway? The existing fuse and wings preserved would seem to have the most historical value, and authenticity. Replicas range from totally faithful for display, to similar but with modern engines for flight, to flight-worthy composite lookalikes. 

When one of Erwin Ziller&#039;s two Jumo jet engines quit, it&#039;s amazing that his H IX V3 didn&#039;t turn into an instantaneous Frisbee. It must have tried. But Wikipedia indicates that he was in control for a while, doing dives to try to restart the burning engine.  In an engine out with no vertical stab, any normal pilot would need a pdq fly-by-wire thrust diverter or dragerons to keep it steered half straight. 

Why two engines? Maybe because they were so unreliable?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preservation, restoration or replication? I&#8217;d guess that a restoration would be 90% replacement anyway? The existing fuse and wings preserved would seem to have the most historical value, and authenticity. Replicas range from totally faithful for display, to similar but with modern engines for flight, to flight-worthy composite lookalikes. </p>
<p>When one of Erwin Ziller&#8217;s two Jumo jet engines quit, it&#8217;s amazing that his H IX V3 didn&#8217;t turn into an instantaneous Frisbee. It must have tried. But Wikipedia indicates that he was in control for a while, doing dives to try to restart the burning engine.  In an engine out with no vertical stab, any normal pilot would need a pdq fly-by-wire thrust diverter or dragerons to keep it steered half straight. </p>
<p>Why two engines? Maybe because they were so unreliable?</p>
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		<title>By: James H. Pickett</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-32841</link>
		<dc:creator>James H. Pickett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-32841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do believe I have seen plans of most all of the Horton bros. project prior to WWII and beyond.  The rebuild and repair of said flying wing design should be a walk in the park.  If the N9M (Northrop) can be done in Chino, I cannot see why the US Garber facility or similiar will not be able to do the same and even make it stealth on wooden wing panels as earlier done or in process. The German engineering was way ahead of the US in the 1930&#039;s and beyond and we should have exploited this after the war. Why this war prize sat in storage for so long is a mystery to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe I have seen plans of most all of the Horton bros. project prior to WWII and beyond.  The rebuild and repair of said flying wing design should be a walk in the park.  If the N9M (Northrop) can be done in Chino, I cannot see why the US Garber facility or similiar will not be able to do the same and even make it stealth on wooden wing panels as earlier done or in process. The German engineering was way ahead of the US in the 1930&#8242;s and beyond and we should have exploited this after the war. Why this war prize sat in storage for so long is a mystery to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Ernest</title>
		<link>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/preserving-and-displaying-the-%e2%80%9cbat-wing-ship%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-32780</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Ernest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nasm.si.edu/?p=3263#comment-32780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you google search, you will find that Lockheed built a full scale mockup of this plane for various radar signature tests.  Maybe they can be approached to loan theirs to the Smithsonian for display until the original is ready to be displayed?  This is an amazing ship!  I read a technical analysis once that claimed it did not need a fighter escort, it would merely fly above the service ceiling of all allied fighters.  There was also speculation that this design could have made the round-trip to the US from continental Europe rather than having to take off from the Azores as was the plan with the Me 264 Amerika bomber.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you google search, you will find that Lockheed built a full scale mockup of this plane for various radar signature tests.  Maybe they can be approached to loan theirs to the Smithsonian for display until the original is ready to be displayed?  This is an amazing ship!  I read a technical analysis once that claimed it did not need a fighter escort, it would merely fly above the service ceiling of all allied fighters.  There was also speculation that this design could have made the round-trip to the US from continental Europe rather than having to take off from the Azores as was the plan with the Me 264 Amerika bomber.</p>
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